McCARTHY AND PATRICK WHITE

This topic contains 27 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Peter Josyph 2 years, 9 months ago.

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  • 28 Mar 2015 at 9:55 pm #6781

    Rick Wallach
    Keymaster

    Except that the denizens of this Forum, being literate and open to new literary adventures, don’t represent enough of a statistical spike to invalidate Gruber. My football players are closer to the silent majority (except for their beer farts).


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    29 Mar 2015 at 6:24 am #6792

    Toni
    Member

    Hi

    I recently read “Voss”. I can understand why someone might
    think it’s similar to McCarthy, especially the desert scenes,
    but in my mind it was closer to Virginia Woolf. Having said
    that, when I read Woolf’s “The Waves” last year, I was cons-
    tantly reminded of McCarthy, so. . .

    Anyway, White seems to have something very feminine about his
    writing, which is kind of interesting. Other than Woolf, I kept
    thinking of the sisters Brontë and Austen and such.

    I wasn’t blown away by “Voss”, but I liked it enough to check
    out a few more, maybe “The Tree of Man” or “The Vivisector” next.

    – Toni


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    29 Mar 2015 at 7:49 pm #6796

    Peter Josyph
    Member

    Thanks, Toni.

    Rick: “Except that the denizens of this Forum, being literate and open to new literary adventures, don’t represent enough of a statistical spike to invalidate Gruber.”

    Now, you might find this a tough nut to chew, but I don’t give a flying fox about your beloved Gruber and I, for certain, am neither validating nor invalidating Gruber. What I find interesting is that you appear to be more interested in characterizing the reading public (or non-reading public) in general than in answering my question about your man White, which is, for the 3rd (or is it the 4th?) time:

    Given that the “denizens of this Forum, being literate and open to new literary adventures,” are not likely to be turned off by White’s modernism or his length, why are they so little turned on to him? As I have also said above, many of your Forumites appear to have read damn near everyone else… and so I suppose I am hoping that you might have a theory as to why this could be…

    Also, would you care to comment on Toni’s remark about White seeming to have “something feminine” about him?


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    30 Mar 2015 at 12:59 pm #6804

    Rick Wallach
    Keymaster

    Apparently, from what we’ve been reading here, several denizens of this forum are turning on to him. As for the ones who aren’t, given how much discussion there’s been about his work here, I guess you need to ask them.


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    30 Mar 2015 at 3:53 pm #6806

    Peter Josyph
    Member

    Rick:

    Would you care to comment on Toni’s remark about White seeming to have “something feminine” about him?

    Could the same ever be said about McCarthy?


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    30 Mar 2015 at 8:41 pm #6807

    Rick Wallach
    Keymaster

    Of McCarthy? Heh, I doubt it.

    As I noted earlier on this thread, White himself said that he believed his feminine side was highly developed as an important aspect of being a gay man. Quite a few critics have noted how vivid, well rounded and complex his woman characters are, and he explores issues of gender identity gleefully. Virtually all of his novels feature interesting women; some of them – like The Aunt’s Story, The Eye of the Storm and A Fringe of Leaves are dominated by female protagonists. The Twyborn Affair features a gender-bending hero/ine, Eddy/Eadith Twyborn. One critic – Veronica Brady, maybe – wrote something to the effect that Eddy was more convincing as a woman than as himself.

    My favorite White female is Mary Hare from Riders in the Chariot, but Elizabeth Hunter from Eye of the Storm and Ellen Roxbrough from Fringe of Leaves are really masterpieces of writerly portrayal. Theodora from The Aunt’s Story is a bit too androgynous to count as purely a woman character – as though White were painting his mirror image, a woman driven by a shot of androgen.

    PS – Charlotte Rampling gave a killer performance as Elizabeth in the film of Eye of the Storm, with Judy Davis (being Judy Davis, after all) transcendent as her daughter.


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    • This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by  Rick Wallach.
    31 Mar 2015 at 12:04 am #6809

    Candy Minx
    Member

    I guess the last time I was here visiting I commented on this thread saying I had read White….and I do see in some ways why Rick has compared McCarthy to White.

    The reasons I believe they are similar is because of style and genre. Style in that they both give in to style as a form of character to the tone of the novel at hand. And genre, because they seem to both facilitate and even seem to embrace or enjoy using genre as an structure for a novel.

    Whatever queer theory was in the 90s is to the power of a hundred now. As is actual gender and sexuality. Sexuality has always been a spectrum…but now young people are especially self-conscious and open about the history of gender discussion and suppression.

    The kind of literature that is available to every subculture and interest group is fascinating. Who knew someday there would be a genre called “mermaid”.

    Coming of age stories for gays (probably under the category of young adult fiction, or even, soft porn) is not even known to most readers. The vast amount of publishing for queer literature, specialty literature, fan fiction is a whole other world. Is it brilliant and high brow? Not at all…it all tends to be repetitive in plot and settings…losing it’s readerships as they grow older or grow into other formats of specialty literature and films.


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    02 Apr 2015 at 7:15 pm #6833

    Peter Josyph
    Member

    Rick and Candy:

    How does one discuss the “feminine side” of a writer or any man without buying into the feminine mystique?

    Not accusing: just inquiring.

    I finally read THE FEMININE MYSTIQUE and so it is on my mind.


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